Pine Mouth and Me
Two weeks ago, on August 22, I had people over for dinner. I made this recipe for the Zuni Cafe roasted chicken with bread salad. The recipe/dinner itself would almost be worthy for a post in and of itself, but as you can see, Deb has already well explained the recipe, and I have something more important to talk about – Pine Mouth. I know, you are probably thinking “what the heck is pine mouth?” I would be saying the exact same thing in your shoes, if I didn’t have the unfortunate experience myself.
I suppose it makes the most sense for me to explain this by way of a timeline, and fill in the information as I learned of it.
Tuesday August 25, 2009 – I woke up for work (I work from home Tuesday mornings), and while I was brewing the coffee, I grabbed a gum drop from a plastic bin as a snack. It tasted a bit strange to me, extra bitter, but I thought maybe it was just a bad gum drop, and didn’t think much of it. The coffee, prepared in a Moka pot, also tasted a bit bitter, but I thought I had burned it some, and just kind of powered through. Neither of these tastes really made me think anything was wrong, but after I got to the office around 11, I noticed that there was a persistent foul taste in my mouth – a acrid, sour taste. I thought maybe I was having some reflux, not completely unheard of for me, so I had a Tums, which also tasted completely awful. When 30 minutes later the taste didn’t go away – in fact it was hanging there like a bitter blanket on the back of my tongue, I started to get concerned. So I did what any sane person would do, and I googled “bitter taste on back of tongue”, and found a bunch of very concerning articles – was my liver failing? Did I actually have a brain tumor? However, thankfully, I noticed, far down on the page, a reference to pine nuts causing a bitter taste. “I had pine nuts Sunday in the bread salad, in fact I had a bunch while cooking dinner too…” was in my mind.
I did some more googling around, and found that wikipedia contains a reference to this outcome, as well as a link to a paper in the European Journal of Emergency Medicine describing this affliction. Interestingly enough, the paper is from 2001, but most of the 13,000 hits for “Pine Mouth” seem to be from the past 9 months or so. So what’s going on here? Well, no one knows, but I will talk about what’s known:
- Around two days after eating certain pine nuts, certain people develop a lingering, unpleasant taste sensation
- The pine nuts that have caused the issue appear to be mostly sourced from China, or other places in the East. European and American pine nuts appear to be precluded from causing this, for now
- The exact methodology of this affliction is not known (but I will discuss a hypothesis of mine shortly
- The affliction lasts for about one to two weeks for more people
Seeing this all relieved me greatly, and also caused me to realize that the bitter taste was reminiscent of the bitter component to pine nuts’ flavor. I made it through the rest of the day eating food that tasted poorly, and just suffered.
Wednesday August 26, 2009 – This mostly probably the worst day of the experience taste wise, because everything I put in my mouth, save for water, tasted like it was coated in dish soap. I was also a bit concerned by getting affected now (and note that none of the other 3 people at dinner got hit by this, so perhaps my extra snacking before dinner helped this along), since I had plans to go wine tasting in Napa the coming weekend with Mackenzie, and what’s the point in wine tasting if all the wine tastes like soap!?
Thursday August 27, 2009 – The soap taste had receded a bit. It was now more of an aftertaste (and a most foul one at that), and I found that some foods had strong after tastes than others. In particular high carb/high sugar foods were the soapiest, and spicy and savory items were markedly less so. I had some hope that by the coming Saturday I would be “better”.
Saturday August 29, 2009 – Sadly, I wasn’t all the way better by Saturday. The soapy aftertaste was certainly less strong, and it lingered far less, but my taste was still not up to par. I couldn’t trust any aftertaste in any of the wines I tasted (and, alas, port in particular was fouled by the soapy aftertaste, which made my otherwise fun visit to Prager Port imperfect.
Wednesday September 2, 2009 – After brushing my teeth in the morning I thought to myself “hey, was this baking soda tooth paste”, because it had that sort of aftertaste. It was not, just normal minty stuff, but this also the last little whisper of the Pine Mouth distastefulness. I was, after this, free at last!
So it lasted a bit more than 8 days for me, which seems to be right around the average, but the big questions remain – what the heck is this, how does it work? Of course, I can’t answer everything, but I can say that scraping your tongue, eating things like parsley, etc have no impact on this. It’s something inside (or chemically bonded) to your taste buds which causes this. And, I think this is the key to the one to two week duration – the life span to a taste bud is about two weeks. So, I, hypothesize that some chemical in these pine nuts from China or Korea or etc, binds with the taste receptors in some taste buds, and then over the course of 36 or 48 hours, metabolizes into some other chemical that blocks all taste except bitter, and perhaps even generates this taste. Now, as these afflicted taste buds die off over the next two weeks, your taste gradually returns to normal.
That’s my story with Pine Mouth. I’m going to be hesitant to eat pine nuts sourced from Asia again, but I’m not going to completely avoid them. It’s entirely possible I will never face this again (and I hope so), but at least I’ll know what it is next time. Have you ever had pine mouth? What was your experience like? Let me know!
I have NEVER heard of that! Fascinating though. Thank you for sharing your experience because I’m sure someone I know will experience this since I love using pine nuts in dishes. bummer it messed with your wine tasting.
Comment by Cherry — September 7, 2009 @ 5:20 pm
that is SOOO bizarre. glad to hear you’re back to normal! :P
Comment by suki — September 7, 2009 @ 6:13 pm
Just ran across your blog when searching for information on pine mouth. Your theory about the shedding of taste buds is interesting, and may account for why it lasts anywhere from a few days to a couple weeks, depending on the person.
As for me, I popped just a few pine nuts before making pesto on Sat. 9/12, and ate the leftovers the next day, 9/13, and I first noticed the taste on Monday afternoon 9/14. I’m a little depressed that I’m only on day 3, but maybe I’ll be lucky and it’ll go away a little more quickly for me. I’m drinking a ginger-lemon-honey concoction to see if that’ll help — but if you’re right, I may just have to wait it out.
The only thing I don’t know is where they came from. I bought them bulk at a small specialty store that sells pretty much exclusively local and organic stuff, so I’m a little suspicious about where they got their pine nuts. If they got them from China, I’ll be a little upset, and it seems likely that they did.
Comment by Jeremy — September 16, 2009 @ 11:08 am
By all means, let me know if you find some sort of cure, or even genuine relief. But yeah, covering up the taste seems not to work, you just have to suffer through it. It does get better over time, even if it takes 10 days, it won’t be 10 days of the same distaste you have the first few days.
Comment by neil — September 16, 2009 @ 11:13 am
Made pesto for dinner party on 9/13 while snacking a little on the pine nuts, 8 people ate the pesto, none got pine mouth except me the following night, it came on about 24 hrs. later. The pine nuts were sold as organic from China, bought them in Ukiah. Wine tastes especially bitter, but all foods taste astringent, like persimmon or walnut skins. Lots of stuff on the web about it – still got it at day 3, hope it goes away soon!
Comment by Kat — September 16, 2009 @ 8:28 pm
In the past, I have always purchased Italian pine nuts for my pesto and other dishes. This week I purchased some “organic’ pinenuts in the Publix produce section. I ate a couple of handfuls and developed the metallic taste that others describe. The onset of the metallic taste was delayed by a day or two after I ate the pine nuts. I have had this taste for 3 days now. I will go back to purchasing the European pine nuts, as I have never experienced this since I’ve been making pesto for over 20 years.
Comment by Susan O'Neal — September 18, 2009 @ 8:22 am
I am soooo relieved to finally hear something about this soapy taste in my mouth that is believable,since i just bought some from the store a couple days ago to put into my hummus dip.I put a handful in my mouth that day and added it to my dip as well.Today I have been online trying to diagnose myself till now,and i even had more dip today before finding your article.So i guess im starting over ! Thank You So Much For Posting….
Comment by roxanne — September 22, 2009 @ 6:51 pm
I have had exactly the same problem for the last four days. Made a dish containing pine nuts on Monday night, and did a bit of snacking on the raw nuts while cooking! Since supper time on Tuesday, I’ve been suffering from pine mouth, while my husband is totally fine. He ate only the cooked dish… The nuts were purchased from an Italian supermarket three weeks ago. I put them in a tupperware container in the fridge, so don’t have the pack any more to check the origin of those little devils. Will go over there this afternoon to check it out. Most things I eat or drink elicit a foul and metallic taste in the back of my mouth, and this is making my life miserable! I love food and wine, and everything is awful….The only thing I can drink is green tea. Looks like I have another five or six days to work through before this goes away.
Comment by Paula — October 2, 2009 @ 6:26 am
This sounds very familiar. 1) Mmm this will be delicious pesto (munch, munch) 2)This breakfast tastes terrible! Ew, so does lunch! 3)OMG what’s wrong with me? 4)Lots of people are experiencing this! Yay, my liver and brain are probably fine !
Last night I found that a small glass of dark, hoppy beer tasted fine to me, and definitely helped the rest of dinner go down. Something about the bitterness of the hops keeping the afflicted taste buds occupied, perhaps?
Comment by Lli — October 9, 2009 @ 3:48 am
This is the EXACT same thing that is currently happening to me.
This past Friday I made the Zuni Roast Chicken with bread salad. I purchased my pine nuts from the bulk bin at my local Whole Foods Market. Normally I put in the specified amount of pine nuts, but this time I doubled the amount.
Yesterday I ate breakfast and everything was fine, but then I had a cup of coffee and I thought the coffee had gone bad. By dinnertime last night, everything I ate had a horrible aftertaste. It was the taste you get when you accidentally chew on a grape seed, or drink orange juice after brushing your teeth.
I had a beer (Sam Adams Octoberfest) last night and the flavor of the beer didn’t trigger the after taste.
Today, everything I ate had the bitter taste. Not an aftertaste, but a bitter taste. Then the aftertaste was especially bitter. It always goes away within minutes though. I find that seltzer water as well as Tazo “Refresh” mint tea are the only beverages I can drink without illiticing that awful taste.
I’m hopeful that this goes away for me in less than 8 days!
Has anyone found a remedy to help speed recovery?
Comment by Alex — October 19, 2009 @ 7:35 pm
I got Pine Mouth too. Mine lasted 2+ weeks after eating Trader Joe’s Pine Nuts in a nice big batch of pesto I made. This happened about two months ago and I still have a lingering bitter taste now and then.
Comment by Tree — October 24, 2009 @ 11:50 pm
I threw away a pot of oatmeal and apple cider this morning because I thought I’d burnt the oatmeal and the apple cider had gone bad. Yes, I’ve come to the conclusion that I too have pine mouth – among the thousands it seems that have had or currently have it. I’m a little more nervous however since I’m nursing a baby. Horrible horrible thing for such a food loving person to have!
Comment by Estee — October 25, 2009 @ 1:34 pm
I just found that a tea-spoon of baking soda gets rid of the bitterness. True story. Worked for me at least!
Comment by John from norway — October 28, 2009 @ 8:52 am
I have it, am on day 5 and I will never eat pine nuts again. Something is seriously wrong and punishing about it and there are too many other good things to eat (i miss all of them right now) to risk this misery again.
Comment by mck — November 2, 2009 @ 11:15 am
Everything I eat tastes vile. I had a handful of pine nuts five days ago. They were much smaller than usual. The bitter flavour on the back of my tongue is just awful, and lasts for about an hour after I drink or eat anything.
Has anyone found a remedy? I’ve heard baking soda works and a few forums have mentioned ginger. I am doubtful, but will give both a try…
I will never eat a pine nut again.
Comment by cgc — November 5, 2009 @ 1:20 pm
I am feeling the same thing! I started eating salads more and in 24 hours started having this awful bitterness and aftertaste! After much internet usage I found this! I’m so mad and depressed that food taste terrible and I don’t want to eat anything! I hope it goes away quickly as I’m miserable! I’ve been scrubbing my tongue hopeing to stimulate something but I’m at a loss! I just hope health wise I’m ok and this has no other effect!
Comment by mjr — November 12, 2009 @ 10:38 pm
I have been experiencing the exact same bitter soapy taste. It started for me on friday. Today is tuesday and I am hoping by thnksgiving i am a bit better. I am going to go and try the baking soda.
Comment by Dana — November 24, 2009 @ 11:29 am
I’m the next victim to report here. Ate pine nuts from an unmarked cellophane packet on Sunday; bitter tatse started Tuesday. Today, Thursday, is the worst day so far. Fortunately, I am an overseas American and we will be doing Thanksgiving on Saturday–hope I can enjoy it! Hope y’all had a Happy Thanksgiving. Drinking green tea, eating green “wintergreen” flavored jello and gargling with salt water have helped a bit.Here is a research field begging from some grad students’ attention!
I like the taste bud theory.
Comment by marilyn — November 26, 2009 @ 4:55 pm
cured
cured this pine mouth last night the same treatment was doctor recommended When I underwent ablation therapy. After having radio active iodine, a treatment in which kills thyroid cell, Doctors insist on sour drops.This causes impurities to leave through the saliva.
I sucked my way through near an entire box of “Dr.Doolittles pink grapefruit pastilles” All sour drops will do but this is what I had on hand last night. Every thing tastes delicious again.
Good Luck to All
Comment by dee in the desert — November 28, 2009 @ 10:40 am
please give me feed back
Please respond back if this works for any of you other sufferers, AS I have not seen any other suggested cures.
Comment by dee in the desert — November 28, 2009 @ 10:41 am
So upset :( first time getting this and I am off pine nuts forever. Always loved pine nut cookies from my local bakery, but never again. Had a 6 cookies 2 days ago an now I am paying the price. Waiting to hear back from the bakery on the source of thier nuts, but my money is on China. Very unpleasant so far and it’s only day one. Off to try sour drops and baking soda now. Thanks
Comment by Ellie in NYC — December 1, 2009 @ 5:38 pm
I just got it after eating at a Spanish restaurant this weekend. I was a bit concerned when it hit me on monday but some research showed me it was pine mouth. So far no improvement :(
Comment by A.B from the Netherlands — December 2, 2009 @ 2:31 am
On day 9, and it’s much better. I coped with carbonated water, lemon juice and cider vinegar. Mine were Costco pine nuts from China.
To those of you in the states – call your FDA district office –
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/ReportaProblem/ConsumerComplaintCoordinators/default.htm
I expected never to hear from them, but I had a call back within an hour and within 24 hours, I had an FDA agent at my door collecting the pine nuts to send back to headquarters. They are taking it seriously.
Comment by Julie — December 16, 2009 @ 12:33 pm
Finally, an answer to my soap tounge!
I had a generous portion of uncooked “mini” pinenuts on my salad from the CHOP salad bar Monday. On Tuesday night, I had a cup of coffee that tasted like soap. The next morning, I had a peanut butter cup that left a bitter taste. Next, I had macaroon that tasted similarly horrible.
What was causing this? Stress related
brain disturbance. Google it! Answer found.
Comment by GeoEnvi — December 17, 2009 @ 10:49 am
Just got Pine Mouth AGAIN! First time I got it was back in September after tasting one small pine nut from a bulk bin. I wanted to taste one before I purchased them because they didn’t look right to me (smaller than usual and darker colored). The bitter taste lasted for 10 days and went away. Then just this past Friday night, my sister put some pine nuts in a salad. I asked her where she bought the pine nuts. She said the bulk bin at Pricesmart (BC, Canada). 10 people ate the salad but only I got pine mouth. The bitter taste started Sunday night. Interesting thing is, I’ve eaten other pine nuts since my first case of pine mouth but I made sure they were from the Italian deli and that they were the bigger, pale colored pine nuts – they didn’t cause pine mouth. Sorry, I don’t have a cure other than to wait it out the 10 days or so. Just wanted to share my experience.
Comment by sarah — December 28, 2009 @ 5:00 pm
I got my dad pine nuts from Fresh Market (no country of origin labeled) and now two days later, the pine mouth set in. I feel so awful! I haven’t had any symptoms, I bought a bag from the same store weeks earlier and didn’t have any problems. I even nibbled a few from this batch and he’s the only one with problems. I really hope they figure this out!
Comment by Kaity — December 28, 2009 @ 10:41 pm
Well,
Really glad to hear that I’m not going crazy! I had the same symptoms and then realized that I had a salad with pine nuts two days before I got Pine Mouth. I guess I’ll have to postpone my birthday dinner until this goes away—alas—I’m only on Day 4 and have had no relief at all yet :-(
Comment by Murphy — January 7, 2010 @ 3:36 pm
I got it to. Mine were from China. Bought them on Friday and ate some. Also ate some on Saturday. Saturday night I first noticed it. Now it’s Friday and I still everything taste horrible. Like most people I thought this had to do with acid reflux or maybe some sort of oral condition but now I’m convinced this has to be due to the pine nuts. I’m going to do some experimentation this weekend with a few ideas I have in order to get rid of this. If what I do works I’ll post it here.
Comment by Charles — January 8, 2010 @ 2:08 pm
Have had a horrible bitter taste in my mouth today and last night, have been eating lots of pine nuts over the last few days as a snack. Now I know what it is and am dreading two weeks of everything tasting really bad
Comment by Beth — January 16, 2010 @ 11:39 am
I to suffer from the dreaded pine mouth… had some roasted pine nuts for pizza and had a few more while roasting and 1 day later while at work i decide to get a blue gatorade for lunch…. after drinking the drink a distinct bitter detergent type taste lingered in the back of my mouth! thinking it was just a bad out of date drink i thought nothing of it, but after dinner the same horrid taste lingered….. and it has been lingering for the last 3 days for 15mins after i drink or eat anything but water!!!! damn you pine mouth… damn u to hell!
Comment by Steve — January 18, 2010 @ 11:41 pm
Thank you for this posting. I’ve read some very similar postings today. I have this “pine mouth”. I hate it! I have been feeling there was something more serious going on. I’m sure now, it’s not:-)
Comment by 6ladybugs — February 7, 2010 @ 9:40 am